http://www.ironagenda.com/2009/12/03/ep ... pressions/

Running Time: 1:44:44m

A few things based on the Shakeoff dynamic.

1)They have posted that they will make the Frenzy check before the shakeoff.

2)Consider this, You have 4 beasts that are knocked down, you can easily shake off the knockdown and have all of them charge and boost to hit. Can Jacks do that? If 4 jacks are knocked down is it possible for them to shake it all off and all charge? No!, its generally going to cost 8 focus to do that, forget even trying to boost to hit. So you seem to ignore that fact during your discussion.

The problem is I find players want to have their cake and eat it also, maybe your not supposed to have all your beasts pop up and charge and boost, maybe Privateer Press wanted you to make some choices as to what you can do instead of running at full efficiency almost every turn since Jacks can't really do that for the most part.

Its an argument that is never really made and I find that frustrating.

We recorded days before the announcement was made, unfortunately. Folks will have to ignore that part of the episode.


Outside of Sorscha, Kreoss, or Bart I don't think it will be very common to have to shake many effects in one turn. When/if it does happen that choice will definitely have to be made, though. It's true that it's easier to shake and charge with beasts than it is with jacks, but the warlock will still be paying for it the next round. Beasts give you more rope to hang yourself with so players who are looking to both have and eat their cake will end up choking on it. (How's that for a mixed metaphor? )

Your point is very true but the fact is Hordes always gave you the option to do that, it still does, it gives you the option to take X amount of beasts and to alpha strike in a way that jacks simply cannot do. That won't happen often but it is still a factor in considering the sheer amount of ways you can manipulate Fury compared to focus.

You simply never see people even give 2 jacks a full 3 focus in most battles but it is very common for people to run multiple beasts and run them hot, not once but a few times if the situation merits it.

For the most part unless a person is extremely foolish, doing that alpha strike, charging your beast up, running up fury to kill the target like a jack etc and doing that with multiple beasts wasn't a bad thing, even if they did frenzy they would be in position where they would just run into more enemy and wreck things, the risk was turning things into a benefit.

Have beasts been hit too hard? I think so.

I think with the fix to the shakeoff changes comming and if they change the reaving rules etc then for the most part things are just fine.

Also 1 thing,

This Warball thing? Is this some weird joke?

It certainly looks like they're easing back on the changes to beasts. I'm guessing the reaving rules won't change to allow reaving from transfers, but they've said that collateral damage, continuous effects, etc. will. That's something, at least. The change to shaking after threshold checks was welcome.

As for the Warball thing, we only joke that we love the game. It's just that it's such a goofy game we poke fun at it a little.

And thanks for all your comments, by the way. They're appreciated.

Its a great podcast you guys have.